After a season of indulgence, many store up their bottles and pledge to give up alcohol for Dry January. The motivation stems from the presumed health benefits of sobriety that have recently been coming to light: Articles in the Washington Post and the New York Times highlight the short-term gains from 31 days of sobriety, including improvements to sleep, skin, energy levels and even habit formation.
But when it comes to longevity, little research has been done to demonstrate what taking a month off of alcohol can do for your health. Furthermore, it raises the question of whether alcohol consumption is “good” or “bad” instead of acknowledging the ambiguity of what constitutes healthy behavior.
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This year, we decided to take a more holistic approach. To better understand the relationship between alcohol consumption and health, we turned to National Geographic fellow, New York Times best-selling author and founder of Blue Zones, Dan Buettner.
Through his research with Blue Zones, Buettner discovered longevity hotspots around the world where people are not only living longer lives, but also living healthfully to the very end. From these communities (aka Blue Zones), he extrapolated secrets for longevity, which he shares in his writings and a recent Netflix documentary, Live to 100: Secrets of the Blue Zones.
Turns out, some of the longest-living people in the world drink upwards of two glasses of wine daily.
This leads us to ask: Is cutting out alcohol really the answer? Or, are there other, more powerful factors that contribute to healthier lives? Listen to learn how Buettner’s findings from the Blue Zones can shape a more informed approach to drinking in the new year.
Episode Transcript
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting.
Speakers: Samantha Sette, Dan Buettner
Samantha Sette 00:09
Hello and welcome to the Wine Enthusiast podcast. You’re serving of drinks culture and the people who drive it. I’m Samantha Sette, digital web producer here at Wine Enthusiast. As we enter a new year, many of us seek to lead healthier, happier lifestyles. What does it really mean to be healthy? It can feel like the answer to this question is constantly changing. Which is why I was so excited and humbled to speak with Dan Buettner, National Geographic fellow and founder of Blue Zones. Dan spent years discovering communities where people live vibrant lives past the age of 100. And those factors that led them there. Now, we can’t help but wonder, Where does a glass of wine fit in the picture? Listen to find out how Dan’s findings in the Blue Zones can shape a more informed approach to drinking in New Year. The calling is a dream collection of California wines offering a distinct range of varietals, styles and best in class Appalachians, winemaker James could fail gives each wine a clear, singular voice, working with renowned family growers to craft Chardonnay, Pinot Noir and Cabernet Sauvignon. While collecting over 7090 plus scores in the process. Join one of the colleagues fully customizable wine clubs for first access to new releases, special library vintages and more. With four membership options, there’s a club for every wine lover, receive three shipments per year or try the monthly subscription delivering three bottles a month straight to your door. For information and access visit us at www.thecallingwine.com/enthusiast. Dan, thank you so much for joining me today. And to get started for anyone who might not be familiar Can you tell us a little bit more about the Blue Zones project and really about yourself? You know welcome
Dan Buettner 02:02
Well, I’m a lifelong explorer and I I approach longevity not as you know health guru or or Instagram influencer, but rather as, as somebody who likes to unravel mysteries. for over 30 years, I’ve been leading scientific expeditions, most of them actually around ancient mysteries like the collapse of the Maya civilization, and did Marco Polo really go to China. And about 24 years ago, I came across a finding from the World Health Organization that a little cluster of islands in Southeast Asia, were producing the longest disability free life expectancy in the world. And I said, aha, there’s a good mystery. And I put together at the time, I had a full time team of explorers and writers at a harbor archaeologists on staff at MIT biologist and I took that whole team and we went to try to begin to unravel the mystery. But we found that trying to unravel the mystery of longevity is a is really kind of a Gordian knot. It’s not easily untied. And after that first expedition, we I got hooked. And by 2004, I got a grant money from the National Institutes on Aging and a in a plum assignment from National Geographic, and we really attack the question, How can we live longer? And would you say that’s exactly how you started the Blue Zones? Project? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we, we added a few assumptions. The first assumption, it’s widely accepted that only about 20% is dictated by our genes. 80% is something else. And a reason that if we could find places that were demographically confirmed, where people are living the longest lives, that we could, we could look for the common denominators or extrapolate from what they’re doing over time and distill a pretty good formula for longevity for the rest of us.
Samantha Sette 04:14
Yeah, and for those who aren’t familiar, what is this? Is this the framework of Blue Zones? How would you boil it down to what is the Blue Zones project?
Dan Buettner 04:24
Well, instead of looking for answers in petri dishes or genetic code, we find populations where people are living manifestly longer they either have the lowest rate of middle age mortality or the highest centenarian rate, usually those two go hand in hand. And then we, with another team of scientists go through to find the correlates, or what do all these populations have in common, how they eat, how they socialize, how they connect, how they shed stress, etc? What supplements they may or may not take what teas they may or may not drink, to find. A signal that’s strong enough to say, you know, this is happening widely enough, and it’s happening constantly enough. And it’s happening in these populations who suffer a fraction of the rate of heart disease and diabetes and cancer and dementia, that we ought to be paying attention to it. And most of my books and stories in National Geographic have uncovered that that mystery piece by piece, yeah, and where are these regions? Where are these blue zone and longevity communities where people are living long, healthy lives. The longest live men live in the highlands of Sardinia and the Noro. And only Aster provinces, the longest of women live in Okinawa, Japan, on the island of Ikaria, we have a population living about eight years longer than Americans do with about 1/5 the rate of dementia that we suffer in Nicoya Peninsula of Costa Rica, another population that has half the rate of middle aged mortality. And what that means is they’re over twice as likely to reach a healthy 95 than Americans are, they spend 115, the amount we do on health care, and they produce a much healthier population. So we really ought to be paying attention to them, given the fact we’re, we’re blowing through almost four and a half trillion dollars a year on mostly avoidable diseases in this country. And then in the United States, among the Seventh Day Adventists we have a population living four to seven years longer than American their American counterparts do. So they’re also interesting, because, you know, they live in the same country that most of the rest of us do.
Samantha Sette 06:44
Yeah, and what from these communities like what do you think is contributing, I guess, through your research that you found contributing to these longer healthy lives?
Dan Buettner 06:52
Well, a lot of people like to start with food. And if you want to know what 100 year old ate to live to be 100 You have to know what she was eating when she was a little kid and young adult and working age and newly retired. And lately, most journalists and, and my critics, they’ll they’ll go to a Blue Zone today. And they’ll say, Well, they’re not even that healthy. Yeah, they can’t be pewters lions. But what we did is, I worked with Harvard to do what’s called a meta analysis, we found 155 dietary surveys done in all five Blue Zones over the last 100 years, and we average them. And when you look what people ate over time, it’s it’s about 90 to 95% whole food plant based they’re eating meat only about five times per month. But you know, most of their day to day, week to week food is whole grains, you know, sourdough bread and Sardinia, corn tortillas and in the Nicoya, Peninsula, rice, and almost all most of these cultures, greens in garden vegetables, that’s not surprising tubers. Interestingly, about 70% of all the calories that Okinawan consumed until about 1975 came from sweet potatoes, a purple sweet potato known as evil. Nuts are often the snack food. And then beans are the cornerstone of every longevity diet in the world. And if you’re eating a cup of beans a day, it’s probably worth about four extra years of life expectancy over getting your protein from less healthy sources. And when it comes to what they drink, you know, good news for most of us listening, six glasses of water teas of all kinds. Coffee, believe it or not number one source of antioxidants in the American diet and wine. And at least three of the Blue Zones. We see nearly daily consumption of you know, homemade, organic, red wine. And then in Okinawa, we also see, Sake so wine has its place and in the longevity path that we’ve seen in Blue Zones.
Samantha Sette 09:11
Yeah, and what I love most about hearing you speak about this is that it kind of goes against all these popular ideas we have about health, right? It’s this foods good and this foods bad. And it’s a more holistic approach that actually includes these things that might not be bad, like wine. And for our listeners who are clearly Wine Enthusiasts, I mean, you’re here for a reason. How would you describe the wine drinking in some of these places? I know Sardinia was one of them where they drink a moderate amount of wine. What does this look like in their lifestyles? How they incorporate wine?
Dan Buettner 09:46
Well, I mean, men especially you see wine consumption throughout the day, but not a lot there. Wine glasses aren’t the big goblets. We tend to drink their tiny little stemless you know cheap little glasses. Is that hold maybe two or three ounces of wine, but you might see a little glass mid morning, another little glass at lunch, another little glass with friends, another glass with dinner. And you know, I’ve recently seen a survey of people, over 90 and, and 85% of them drink wine every day. But you know, the context is also important, you don’t see people just, you know, slamming a glass of wine after work because they want to de stress. It’s almost always with friends. It’s almost always with a meal. And by the way, if you’re drinking a glass of red wine with a plant based meal, you about quadruple the absorption of certain flavonoids or antioxidants. So, I mean, there’s that the you know, I’m very familiar with the the latest studies that show that no level of alcohol is safe. But there’s a few caveats to those studies. One, they also include the risk of death from falling down, or car accidents, which aren’t necessarily health threats, as much as they are bigger picture threats. And they don’t take into consideration context. You know, people who drink red wine probably tend to be more social, at least in the Blue Zones, that they tend to eat it with a meal. Of course, their wines are probably healthier than the average, you know, wine at Costco, you know, they’re homemade, they tend to have slightly lower alcohol, they tend to be young wines, they’re made this season and consume this season. And it you know, in some cases, a pre phylloxera wines as well, which is really interesting. We have that we have at least one case of that in Ikaria, where the vines are about 140 years old, which I found very interesting.
Samantha Sette 11:49
Is that Greece, Ikaria?
Dan Buettner 11:51
Yes, yes.
Samantha Sette 11:52
What I love here is this emphasis on context. And it’s something that I have a science background a bit in the health community, and something I really think that more people should pay attention to is it’s not just what you’re consuming, right? It’s who’s around you this element of community, which is that a big part of the Blue Zones? Has your research kind of dove deeper into that element of context.
Dan Buettner 12:19
Well, if you look at these blue zones in the way their communities are set up traditionally that you know, America, but 25% of us are lonely. And loneliness in America is associated with about eight fewer years of life expectancy. In America, we’re not necessarily born with a social circle, we have to build it ourselves. In blue zones, communities are much tighter, they pull together in times of hardship, they pull together and very regularly with community wide parties that aren’t just a bunch of young people raving but they’re, they’re, you know, people from eight to 98, especially in Ikaria, these parties, which there’s about 80 or 90 of them which go all night long, and that people start drinking at 11. And they finish at nine the next morning. You know, not getting, silly drunk, but it sort of fuels the evening sip by sip. And, you know, they live in places where every time they step off their front door, they’re bumping into people. It’s not like you go from your attacks garage, attached garage and your suburb to your job with an underground garage, and then up to work. These people are constantly bumping into their neighbors, the their people, they buy bread from people, they deliver their mail, and it’s a very social community and they drink socially.
Samantha Sette 13:41
It’s not just a drink after a hard day’s work. It’s more than that. It seems like it’s fueled by purpose.
Dan Buettner 13:47
Yeah. And it’s not quite, it’s not the quantity again, it’s like you don’t see you don’t really see people drinking huge glass of wine. They’re tiny little glasses, but savored, and the wine too, by the way, has less sugar, you’re not going to have the pesticides in it, you know, it’s organic, it probably has more active poly phenols. And the wine very may very well be healthier in a blue zone than it is you know, in a off the grocery shelf here in the United States.
Samantha Sette 14:23
And for our listeners who might not be familiar, what makes something like poly phenols and antioxidants and the fact that it’s organic, kind of better, if you will, or more nutrient dense.
Dan Buettner 14:34
Well, you we’ve all heard of resveratrol, which is one of those polyphenols but also the prosinin which is another poly phenol you see in especially in Sardinia in Canada now, that’s been actually shown to reduce inflammation of the endothelial, which is the lining of the heart. So when you’re dosing yourself regularly, small doses there’s an argument that at you, you have less arterial inflammation and therefore, less chance of developing a blockage and a heart attack. I can’t make a causal claim there, but I can, you know, offer a string of associations which may be or may not be persuasive depending on who you are. But of course, you know, there’s they don’t use pesticides. There’s no sulfites, you know, unless they put it in a bottle and they ship to the United States. But the wines they’re drinking, there are sulfite free on a day to day basis. So yeah, and then once again, they’re ancient grapes, the grapes in Sardinia, the Cannonau there interesting because they’re bombarded with about 330 days of high altitude sunshine. And the grapes response to that is to generate more pigment in the skin, which the pigment it turns out is where a lot of these poly phenols are antioxidants are, it’s literally the redness of the grape. And the way the wine is made in, in Sardinia, the juice ferments with crushed seeds and the skins. So all those wonderful rich polyphenols can leach into the wine, you know, which is later finished. So, you know, as a result, the very interesting researcher named Roger Corder that studied these wines from around the world for their polyphenol levels. And so a couple of the Sardinian varietals have among the highest concentrations of polyphenols in the world, you know, which, which may or may not explain their longevity.
Samantha Sette 16:37
Yeah, and for anyone who is maybe in the United States or somewhere that is not one of these blue zones, is there a way to have this wine taste it, go and experience it?
Dan Buettner 16:49
You can try a Cannonau from Sardinia I think if you Google Blue Zoneswine, you might find it but yeah, the Cannonau from Sardinia is a good place to start, especially if you can find it from the Ogliastra. It’s not quite the same when it’s grown at the sea level elsewhere in Sardinia
Samantha Sette 17:11
Can you tell me a little bit more about why that is? If you have any idea why?
Dan Buettner 17:16
Well okay, first of all, it’s grown in a place where people are living longer in and consumed by those people people who live on the coast don’t live in Sardinia don’t live any longer than their Italian counterparts in the mainland, it’s only the highlands Sardinians and number two, the grapes in the highlands are exposed to their you know, 3000 feet higher, and they’re exposed to more radiation, which may occasionally more pigment and therefore more antioxidant to the skins and the way you know, I know the way that people in the highlands make their grapes, the I mean make their why they crushed it all together. Leave this you know the skins in the in the seeds to to marinate for 15 days before before they continue the winemaking process.
Samantha Sette 18:14
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Dan Buettner 19:02
There the nine common denominators of of no matter where you go in the world and see Long live people. So they’re eating mostly a whole food plant based diet. They have a vocabulary for purpose. They have sacred daily rituals to shed stress. They tend to hang out with family they prioritize family over work or over, you know, their sports team. They tend to be religious by the way, they move naturally. They don’t really exercise as much as living in environments that nudge them into moving every 20 minutes or so. And then they they carefully not not necessarily consciously but that they’re surrounded by people, their immediate social circle that encourage the right behaviors and help marginalize the wrong or the unhealthy behaviors. So that all adds up to the common denominators. And drinking wine is is one of the competent denominators or some form of alcoholic beverage, except for the Adventist, it’s only about half the Adventists drink, you know, they’re officially not supposed to drink but all their blue zones, they enjoy a little wine as a celebratory food, or celebratory beverage or, you know, sort of the end of the day or with friends with a good meal.
Samantha Sette 20:18
And correct me if I’m wrong, but these nine habits or, you know, things that people can do, if you will, they don’t exist in isolation, is that correct?
Dan Buettner 20:27
That’s right. The key finding from the Blue Zones is that if you want to live longer, don’t try to change your behavior or don’t necessarily been tried to make a new habit, not that habits don’t work over the short run. And they work for maybe single digit percent people for the long run. But when it comes to longevity, there’s no short term fix. There’s no pill, there’s no supplement, there’s no diet, there’s no exercise program that you can do for the next few months, or maybe your two that has any impact on how long you’re gonna live. And if you look at all diets and exercise programs and supplement patterns, they tend to last maybe a year, that you tend to lose about 90% of people after seven months and all of those so in Blue Zones, they don’t they don’t get involved with any of that they’re not doing CrossFit or online buying their supplement packets are super foods or, or on that new fad diet come New Years, they just live their lives. So the insight here is that if you want to live longer, change your environment. And if people in Blue Zones, their environment is such that their unconscious decisions are marginally better their conscious micro decisions are unconsciously better all day long. Every time they go to work or friend’s house that occasions a walk. They have gardens out back so every day they’re out weeding or watering or harvesting their their life’s artful mechanized conveniences. So they still do yard work and housework by hand. You know, their social by default, they’re eating this very simple peasant food by default, because it’s the cheapest and most accessible and it app quite frankly, they know how to make it the most delicious. If you look at my book, The Blue Zones kitchen, which is one of the top 50 cookbooks of all time, and I’m not even cook, but I gathered the recipes. And you see very clearly the foods that people eat on a day to day pattern driving longevity or simple peasant foods. Not because, you know they if they had meat, they wouldn’t eat it. It’s just because they could afford meat. So they learned how to make these simple foods taste good, which is a really important message to not only rich people in America, but poor people in America too. You don’t have to shop at fancy grocery stores and eat fresh produce. If you have beans and rice or beans and tortilla or, or pasta e fagioli or minestrone soup. These all costs less than a buck a serving, and they’re a lot healthier than you know the superfood crap you buy on the internet.
Samantha Sette 23:08
It’s so true, I can attest that the cookbook is great. I’ve made a couple of things from it. And it’s so refreshing to hear this I think especially as we enter a new year, everyone’s like you said, going for that quick fix. And it’s interesting because that quick fix is usually for a shorter term goal than longevity. And it makes me wonder why aren’t we striving for longevity? Why aren’t we striving for a robust life full of vitality to the very end? And I guess, as a message for our listeners for as we head into the fad diets and dry January, it seems like those things aren’t the answer.
Dan Buettner 23:44
No, they’re not they always fail, or they fail for 97% of people. It’s it’s a waste of time might make you feel better, you know after your hangover on January 1, but it’s not going to really do any good and that this data is very close clear on that. By January 19. Over half of people who start at New Year’s resolutions have already failed, and you lose the rest sometime the mid mid February. So it’s a waste of time. You’re much better off on a New Year’s Eve to say to yourself, you know, I’m going to make some new friends this year, I’m going to surround myself with friends whose idea of recreation is pickleball or or tennis or bicycling or gardening or walking friends who who care about me on a bad day. And friends who’s you know, it’s not bad idea to have a vegan or vegetarian friend because they’re going to show you how to make and find delicious plant based food, you know, and it’s not bad to have, by the way friends, we’re going to meet you and Happy Hour and have a glass or two wine. That’s some we very clearly see in blue zones, but it’s not about the wine. It’s about what comes with the wine, the fellowship, the stress reduction that comes with a good happy hour with somebody who cares about you. That’s what you want to build a new years, save your money on the fad diet and the bullshit supplements.
Samantha Sette 25:12
Yeah, and I think we can all relate at some point in our lives or another that we kind of do latch on to those things that we’re told are going to make our lives better. And they never do. Because it’s the same. It’s the things like you said, community conviviality feeling like you belong, and you have a purpose, which is so powerful, but so overlooked.
Dan Buettner 25:30
The reason is, it’s hard to make money if you’re peddling purpose, or trying to convince people to socialize in a healthy way, the way you make money is you sell hope, with supplements, you sell hope, with weight loss programs, you sell hope, with intense exercise programs, and you suggest is a quick fix. And people buy that all the time they perennial, buy it and make a lot of money at it. And the reason they make a lot of money at it is because it fails. And then you get the same people signing up next year for something slightly different. You know, I mean, I guess he could, it’s kind of a form of recreation, but it doesn’t really help us, you know, life expectancy in America has dropped by two and a half years. In the last three years. It’s mostly because of chronic disease, by the way, pandemic has fueled that, but 75% of Americans are obese or overweight, that’s about triple what it was, you know, when I was a young man, and it just keeps getting worse. And we keep trying the same things over and over. That’s Einstein’s definition of insanity. You keep trying to diets exercise, longevity, hacks, supplements, and it never works. We just keep getting fatter and sicker. And we never really wake up, right? And rather than doing that over and over, why not look at populations, who that have actually achieved the outcomes we want. And mimic them mimic their environment, mimic their patterns, we can save our country, a lot of grief and a lot of pain and a lot of money.
Samantha Sette 27:08
Yeah, it’s so again, inspirational honestly, to hear this because as much as I have hope I’m also fearful of the future. And being part of a younger generation, I’m curious to see will this change for the better, there’s going to be change, that’s inevitable, but how will it change? And hopefully through more communities, that model after the Blue Zones, we can kind of cultivate more longevity, and healthier living that isn’t buying into what marketing tells us is healthy living.
Dan Buettner 27:42
Maybe or maybe not. In the meantime, we’ll we’ll all raise our glass to a happy hour.
Samantha Sette 27:47
Very true! And I guess with that, what advice like in a nutshell, would you give to someone who maybe is listening to this and wants to make a change in the new year and wants to better their lives? What is one simple thing that they could do?
Dan Buettner 28:02
What you know, I know everybody wants a sound bite right now. But you know, I’ve spent the last 20 years writing on this I’ve written for New York Times bestsellers, Google Blue Zones books and pick one that’s right for you. That’s the best thing. And it’s kind of a blatant plug. But it’s it’s just a little bit more complex and a soundbite. But one counterintuitive thing you can do is internal inventory of what you’re good at what you’d like to do, what your values are, actually, I would actually say write those down in three columns. Look for the commonalities. And then in the fourth column, write down an outlet. Only about 30% of Americans find their purpose at work. That means the majority of us need to find our purpose elsewhere. And people’s what’s being you’re talking about purpose for because people who can articulate their sense of purpose live about eight years longer than people who are rudderless in life, and most of us are rudderless. At least when it comes to our work life. So finding a volunteer outlet, finding a group of friends with a shared vision or shared passion and getting involved with that, that there’s far better evidence that that will lengthen your life than any you know, Resveratrol pill or longevity hack the Metformin, testosterone, stem cells, all that other experimental crap, find a sense of purpose and put it to work in your life. And you’ll not only live longer, you’ll enjoy the journey.
Samantha Sette 29:40
So true. And one of my favorite questions to ask people as we begin to wrap up here is did you ever expect to end up where you are today?
Dan Buettner 29:50
No, no, but But I will tell you, you know, when I graduated from college and other people were doing useful and productive things I set three records biking around the world, biking, Alaskan Argentina and biking the length and width of Africa. And nobody thought I had a mountain much. But it turns out that those that following my passions like that developing resilience and some empathy, and an ability to talk to people in all walks of life were the very strengths I needed to build Blue Zones and Blue Zones projects are now in 80 cities in America. I just finished a Netflix documentary series, which was one of its most successful, and in history international series. We were top top 10 and 83 different countries called Living to 100. By the way, if you haven’t seen it just came out in August. And yeah, it’s been, you know, phenomenally successful. But I look at myself as the blind squirrel who found a nut. I got lucky.
Samantha Sette 31:01
I love that because I think we’re so fixated on ending up somewhere, we never end up that way never looks like how we think it’s going to life is unpredictable. That’s kind of the beauty of it. And I guess in enjoying all that celebration, we have to ask what’s in your glass?
Dan Buettner 31:17
Well, I’m a Brunello fanatic. Love a Brunello, and I have a number of them. I also bring Cannanou to dinner parties, because I think at the end of the day, a good wine has a good narrative. And also there’s a there’s a Ikaria and producer named a Afines AFI NES, that produce a pre phylloxera white wine, which is amazing. And I always get some of that I love breaking it because I tell people you’re tasting a wine that Homer probably tasted are very similar to what Homer tasted, so crushed underfoot in Granite Crips and then it’s fermented and clay amphora under the ground, it’s a very different wine experience. It’s called a Phoenix again, in vineyard iniquity, good friends of mine. So those are what’s in my glass.
Samantha Sette 32:15
That sounds delicious. I never even heard of that. Definitely have to check it out. And I know you referred to this earlier, but where can our listeners find you? Besides watching the documentary? Where else if you want to plug anything?
Dan Buettner 32:27
Okay, well @DanBuettner on Instagram, I do new longevity tips almost every day. My name is DAN BUETTNER. At Dan Buettner And then Danbuettner.com. If you’re interested in my articles, they’re free on there, I have recipes to live to 100 some tools if you’re interested in that. And my latest New York Times bestseller is called Blue Zones, secrets to living longer, and it reads like an illustrated manual on how to get an extra 10 years of life. So that might be a useful resource.
Samantha Sette 33:03
That’s really exciting. And I guess expression of gratitude once again, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today.
Dan Buettner 33:10
Well, Sam, I hope to see you when you’re 100. And I love your magazine, and I’m a Wine Enthusiast myself and it’s so nice to meet the editor and and you know, it’s behind all that sort of bravado that I think the magazine projectors have very sweet, intelligent person, so very nice to meet you as well.
Samantha Sette 33:38
When it comes to living healthier lives, context clearly matters. Are you planning to make healthier changes in the coming year? And if so, how? We’d love to know. You can email us your comments and questions at podcast@wineenthusiast.net remember, you can subscribe to this podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify and anywhere else you listen to your favorite shows. You can also go to wine enthusiast.com backslash podcast for more episodes and transcripts. I’m Samantha Sette. Thanks for listening. In addition to producing world class content, did you know that Wine Enthusiast is also the premier shopping destination for wine lifestyle products, just visit our shop at wine enthusiast.com where you will discover an amazing assortment of unique quality items guaranteed to enhance your wine experience. From glassware and accessories to 1000s of unique wine gifts. It’s like a toy store for wine lovers. And don’t forget about protecting your wine. We are the nation’s leading retailer of wine storage products. Whether you have six or 600 bottles, desire a wine cabinet or a custom designed wine room. Our free wine storage consultations will help you find the perfect fit for your collection. Visit wine enthusiast.com Today, we bring wine to life. Brought to you by the Wine Enthusiast shop
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